::Attendees visible::

[Caitlynn Land]
Henry Zarrow School... and the Oklahoma Adoption Competency Network. We appreciate everyone joining during your lunch or noon hour. We wanna get started so we can make sure to respect everyone's time and great information being discussed today. 
First, let us go over a few housekeeping things for our time together this afternoon. We are recording this meeting. By participating, you are giving your consent to be recorded, help us reduce distractions so we can all focus and participate. We have muted everyone to make it possible for everyone to hear the speakers. We want you to express your thoughts and questions. So please utilize the chat for this purpose. We'll monitor the chat and questions will be touched upon during our Q&A time during the last 15 minutes of the webinar. We wanna see you, so if you're willing and you can, please turn on your video. If you are unable, that is also fine. To receive information about other post adoption events, please go ahead and list your name and email in the chat and we will make sure to add you to our contact list. Remember confidentiality. It is vital that we protect confidential information, so we will not use, um, share specifics, names, details, et cetera about adoption cases, people or children. And then also CEUs are now available to professionals for this training. Foster parents attending this training will also receive one hour of training credit towards the 12 hours of in-service training that you need each year. Please indicate in the chat if you would like to claim this CEU by posting your name and your email, and we will send you a certificate of attendance and participation. And now I'm gonna hand everything off to Melanie Moore, who is today's host.

[Melanie Moore]
Hi. Um, thanks for having me today. I'm gonna be, um, giving a presentation, um, from my lived experience as a parent of a 26-year-old young man with autism level three and an intellectual developmental disability. So let me, um, share my screen.

::Title Slide - Advocating for Adopted Children with Developmental Disabilities - Presented by: Melanie Moore, MSW::

Can y'all see, um, the slideshow? I'm sorry, I didn't hear you. Caitlynn, can you see it?

[Caitlynn]
Oh, sorry. I was trying to get the volume on my computer to work.

[Melanie]
Okay. Okay.

::Slide - Agenda::

So our agenda today, um, will be, um, our primary goals today for the presentation is The Road Traveled is, um, my own, um, kind of personal story of what, um, the road that Matthew and I have traveled. Along the way, there has been speedbumps, um, treasures, roadblocks, and the gifts of, of this diagnosis and my own lived experience of being a parent and the things that I, um, have experienced of advocating and some systems, um, that I've worked with. And, um, the gifts that, that's just come along with it and the focus on the siblings I, in my experience, I think that's one area that sometimes does not, um, get enough attention, sadly. And I think it's really important that some of our, um, things that we need to do is really focus the, our attention on the siblings. And then, um, DDS eligibility requirements. There's a video I'm gonna show about that very important service that is offered to individuals that have an IQ below 70 and have a diagnosis of an intellectual developmental disability that is mild, um, moderate or profound. And of course, I love the Science of Hope. And hope as a framework for action. And then supporting you, the caregiver, and the parent community resources. And then anytime you have any questions for me, um, don't hesitate to interrupt. And then I give, um, some references. So we'll get started.

::Slide - The Road Traveled::

Um, so the road traveled, that is a picture of me and Matthew. Um, I was much younger then when I had him. Um, I was four days away from my 22nd birthday when I gave birth to Matthew. He was, um, he came out crying and, um, I like to say, um, he never stopped, but he is a beautiful boy. Um, in 1998, he was born in. He was my firstborn, so I didn't know really what to expect. The doctor, I was taking him to the doctor for everything. It's just as a first mom always does. I was scared. Um, he was colicky, he had acid reflex. He had what I felt like everything under the sun, but I was doing my best, right? And that's all we can do. 
He, um, was slow to crawl. He didn't meet those developmental milestones as, as expected. As I read about, um, the doctor told me, "Oh, he's a boy. You are just gonna have to wait." Um, so that's what I did. I kept waiting and waiting. He didn't walk till he was 15 months. Um, didn't sleep at all through the night. Well, he still doesn't sleep through the night and he's 26. So, um, those are just some of the things, um, that were challenging. 
And at the age of three, um, well back up, Um, we got Sooner Success. I cannot stress enough about how important sooner success is, um, to, to families in getting that early intervention in as quickly as possible. 'cause Sooner Success, uh, um, I'm sorry, SoonerStart was the best thing that I ever did for myself and Matthew, because they really started telling me, "Yes, this isn't normal. And yes, we are seeing the developmental delays that you're seeing and here's, here's some things that we can do in, in the home." And they came to me because at that time, I was, I was already pregnant with my second child and it was hard for me to get out and with Matthew at the time 'cause he just was so outta sync with himself and his body and space. And they came to the home, provided speech therapy, occupational therapy, and then at the age of three, they arranged everything for transition for him into the public school system. So I didn't really have to do much, and they really helped me, guided me, and held my hand. So I can't say enough about, um, SoonerStart and really making those referrals when you don't think that a kiddo is on track developmentally. Even if they are, they can tell you that they are. And then the parent is at ease. But if they're not, they're just really helpful for parents.
Um, in 2001, when he was diagnosed with autism, the prevalence was one in 150. So it wasn't as common. And the only thing I knew about autism at the time was, um, Rain Man. That's what I thought autism was about. And it's still one of my favorite movies, but that's not always a great example of what autism is because when you meet one person with autism, you've met one person with autism. Because that, they all function differently and they all bring unique gifts to, to the families and unique challenges as well.
Um, I will say that I'm a sponge for re-- I read everything. Um, people laugh at me, um, because I remember all kinds of things. I read policy, I read newspapers. I read crazy things, but I love to read. So I read everything I could about autism, developmental disabilities. Back then it was called Pervasive Developmental Disabilities. But I figured out pretty quickly that he was probably gonna have a lifelong intellectual developmental disability. So I even started reading DDS policy when he was three years old. So I remembered that really, um, I remembered their policy, um, rather quickly. And, um, still today I remember their policy. Um, so along the way there was really a lot of tears, heartbreaks, celebration, triumph, setbacks. And as a caregiver and a parent, I think you have to grieve at your own pace, and that's okay. Don't ever let somebody tell you that it's not okay to grieve because it is, because you need to, because it's not what you expected when you first was having this beautiful child that you thought would eventually leave your home maybe and get married, have children. And it's just, it's not what you envisioned. And that's for, for my story. That's not what I envisioned for my firstborn. And that's okay because it changed. And he still lives with me at home at 26. Um, he marches to a beat of his own drum. I still get to see all the Disney movies. I still get to do a lot of things that I would've never thought I would've done if it wasn't without him and his diagnosis. And I'm a true advocate for individuals with disabilities. And I do wanna see some things change in our state to better their lives and better their opportunities for inclusion, um, in our communities.

::Slide - Children Remind Us...::

And, um, our children are the, are treasures. They're the, um, great gifts. I love this quote: "Children remind us to the treasures, the smallest gifts." [coughs] I'm sorry I've been sick. [reading] "Children remind us to treasure the smallest gifts even in the most difficult times." And that is so true because sometimes in the most difficult times in our lives, we forget the treasures that they bring to us. So embracing uni, unique way your even if it's not what you imagined your garden to be. And those, that is one thing that I try to keep in mind on the hard days is that, and just embrace the journey, because that journey is something that looks different. And each day is a blessing, and you have to find the blessing. 
Um, one wish I have, looking back on my early days as a parent, a young parent, is I would've relaxed more. I wouldn't have been so uptight and trying to find a fix because they don't need to be fixed. They need to be loved and accepted and, and enjoyed. And, um, I think I was really uptight as a mom. And some days I'm still uptight. But I think that's what we do as parents is, um, we wanna fix. But some days we just need to accept and just go with the flow. Give yourself a break. Grace is needed by family members, by your neighbors, by everyone that's involved with you and your child is, um, we don't get it right. And that's okay. And we just, um, need to ask for grace. I know this is hard, but when the meltdowns come over, shoes, wrong pants, itchy pants, um, try to stay regulated. Take a deep breath, keep breathing. I still tell myself this every day because if I don't get the right brand of macaroni or I don't get the right brand of pizza, there could be a meltdown or a refusal to eat or a slam of the door. But at the end of the day, we're able to talk about it and I can explain, "Hey, they didn't have that. So what else can we eat?" Always the options are good, and that I'm doing the best I can.

::Slide - Focusing on the Sibling::

Um, on those siblings, I, this is an important topic because I think there's a lot of siblings that we sometimes overlook. I had, Matthew, um, has a brother who is 23 years old. Um, he is a senior this year at OU. He will graduate in May. And he is a wonderful support. He, uh, understands that one day he will have to help Matthew make decisions. It's a heavy burden, but one that he has embraced. Um, the, I've done some research on siblings and, um, they, the journey is common, is more common than one would think. [reading] "Among 6 million people in the United States that have a disability, most of them have at least one sibling." [reading] "Siblings are most people's longest relationship from childhood through old age." Typically, a sibling understands, um, their brother or sister like no one else. Um, the relationship can have highs and lows, excuse me, just like any other sibling relationship. 
So, and as a parent, I think it's really important that you, um, take time to really understand the child that is non-disabled in their needs, and make sure you're taking time for them outside of just that normal functioning sibling, um, relationship. And maybe do something special for them. Get them in an extra activity that's outside of that sibling group always, and just make sure, focus on them as well.

::Slide - The Science Hope::

Um, one of my favorite things, um, is I went through the Hope Navigating training with Dr. Chan, um, Hellman. And I really think this is a great example of how we can use the Science of Hope in families, that hope is not an outcome. Rather hope is a process that leads to well-being. And I think hope is, as a caregiver and parents in the system to work, we have to, we really have to hope. And hope is not just a wish. It, it is more of, caregivers and parents challenge systems to work quicker and smarter and at full capacity for our children and adult children with disabilities. So we are asking systems to work to better our, uh, better our li-- better their lives for the children and and their families to, to make it easier to fulfill the dreams of our children and the lives that they want. Even if they have level three autism or a pretty significant intellectual disability, they still have hopes and dreams and we have systems available to help their dreams come true. So we really have to challenge those systems of with the people who, who live that need those systems.
Um, I've always said the people with the problems can help solve the problems. So that's really important to me. And I, I've always challenged systems, and as parents and caregivers, I hope you do the same. Um, one thing is that it's about setting small goals and develop pathways and discuss, um, together the plan. What is the motivation? What's your motivation for your family and your child? The willpower and, um, the family, uh, commits to making a small change each day. You have to believe that, um, tomorrow will be better than today. Some days it doesn't feel like that. Some days you feel like, um, "If I can just get a shower today, I'm doing good." Or "If my kid just will not have a complete meltdown, we're doing good." It's just the small changes. And I'm an advocate for my son. Um, it takes a village. I truly believe that with my whole heart and soul. So you have to find your village, um, big or small. I would've never made it without my mom, um, to be honest. She was able to, um, help me with childcare when Matthew was small because the traditional childcare centers would not, um, keep him due to some, um, extreme behaviors at times when he would get upset. And she allowed me to, uh, continue to work and seek, um, higher education. So I am, will always be thankful to her.

::Video - Resources: DDS Eligibility Requirements - https://youtu.be/D5W9LBi8_-8?feature=shared:: 

And I'm gonna play you a video, video about DDS that when the eligibility...

[Video starts]

[Narrator]
What are the eligibility requirements for DDS services

[Music]

[Narrator]
Community-based services to people who meet the following requirements they must be an Oklahoma resident at least three years old have an IQ of 70 or below and a qualifying diagnosis of a developmental disability the person must also be eligible for Medicaid and have a disability determination from the Social Security Administration or Oklahoma Health Care Authority to apply for DDS Services visit okdhs.org [Music]

[Melanie]
Okay, DDS is a wonderful service.

::Slide - Supporting the Caregivers::

Um, I'm sure most of you know, um, DDS has done a great service by advocating through the legislature to move the wait list and to provide services to, um, thousands of individuals that have been on a long wait list. So my advice to you as a parent would be to, um, make sure that your child is on the DDS wait list and to familiarize yourself with the services that are offered and just to read their policy. Um, familiarize yourself with, um, what's offered and your rights as a parent and what is, um, your child eligible to receive and just, um, make sure they're on the wait list. So, um, that is what I would suggest as a parent because it's what I did when I learned Matthew would have an intellectual disability. I read their policy frontwards and backwards a couple times. 
Um, supporting the caregiver parents and finding the support you need. This is very important to me. As a caregiver myself. I hear self-care and I immediately roll my eyes. Seriously, I do. Um, explore things that you love, even when you can only do it for 10 minutes a day, even if you can only start for five minutes a day, if it's, you know, um, taking a, a, a bath, putting, um, a a bath bomb in the bath or getting outside, digging in your flower bed, trying to take a walk. Those are the times that you can really reflect outside of your, uh, caregiver-parent role about things that will calm your mind nd, um, hopefully you can build that into a routine and maybe make it 15 minutes a day because you are only as healthy-- your child is only as healthy as you are. And I can say that from my own lived experience. And that is 150% true. So try to find some way to have your own self care and develop a routine where you can stick to it. Um, we can't pour from an empty cup. It's impossible. We are not superhuman people. We're just people who have children with, um, disabilities. And, um, we have to keep that in mind and take care of ourself and our health and our mental health and the things that come with it.
And, um, I'll self-disclose. You have to take care of your mental health and maybe even seek therapy and somebody to talk to because your own mental health can suffer when you have a child with a disability. And I'll be the first to admit that. No shame zone here. So please, um, if you get anything out of this, don't be ashamed to say that you need help. Um, respite care. A lot of people love to say, "Oh, please get respite." That's a great, there's a lot of, lot of wonderful respite programs offered in the state. The reality, um, for me was who, who's gonna provide the respite for me? Um, my family is all typically who I have who can provide care for Matthew, and they're tired and I don't wanna ask them again. So try to develop friendships, um, neighbors, maybe other people in your community that you could at least ask, um, for a weekend break because you do need to go somewhere and, um, charge, get recharged and, um, just take a break, you know, more than 24 hours, maybe 48 hours, 72 hours. Um, support group and advocacy groups. I've been a part of both, and those are really important. Sometimes, um, it may not be your jam and that's okay, but you have to find your village. You have to find the people that you connect with and you will. Or not. And that's okay. No pressure there.

::Slide - Community Resources::

Um, here is a list of community resources that I have, um, that I use and, um, especially OKFosters, um, post adoptions. I mean, I am so proud of the agency that they have really stepped into a place that they are really coming, uh, stepping up to, to realize the need for adoptive parents to be able to have a place and to receive help and support when things are really hard because they do get really hard with kids and with trauma and a disability. It's extremely difficult. And I know that from professional experience. And, um, so I love the website and I love the everything that they have to offer. And Dr. Goodwin is amazing at her job and the resources that she offers and the team that she's building in post adoptions Sooner Success, um, Sibshops, if you've never heard of that, that is an amazing organization and an amazing, um, type of, uh, get together for siblings that see other siblings that have disabled, um, siblings that they can connect with on the weekends or at an event that maybe they can understand their path and maybe form a connection with. And I put on here that, of course, DDS, um, if you're not familiarized yourself with that, please do. And then State Personal Care, it's a different, it's through the Advantage Waiver, but you can get state personal care, but there is some, um, guidelines that you have to understand and, um, as a relation is having a, a disability determination, either through Social Security or, um, Oklahoma Healthcare Authority. And then Oklahoma Autism Network is a great, um, uh, resource through, and it's through the Oklahoma Health Science Center.

::Slide - Thank you! Questions/Answers::

Right? Do, I am, I am so sorry that I am a little under the weather, but I tried to power through. Um, does anyone have any questions for me?

[Sarah Antari]
Melanie? [feedback] Can you mute yourself? Hold on. [feedback]

[Sarah]
Hey, can you hear me?

[Melanie]
I can hear you.

[Sarah]
Okay, great. We're having some audio difficulties over here. Um, so I just wanted to thank you so much for being so open and vulnerable with us, um, and sharing your story. It's so inspirational every time I get to listen to you talk, um, I can definitely tell that this population is your passion. Um, I did wanna ask about your diagnosis, or not yours, but Matthew's diagnosis journey. Um, how do you think our adoptive parents can, like, if they have concerns about the development of a child that they don't, they don't have any idea, um, because a lot of times DHS doesn't know, uh, especially if it's an infant. Um, so what are some things that you think adoptive families could look for? Um, like maybe behaviors or, or things, things like that.

[Melanie]
Well, in my experience with Matthew, um, he did not respond to his name when he was, um, even at two, you could say his name 10 times, and he would not respond to his name. So through SoonerStart, we were able to get hearing a, a really complex hearing test through the Hough Institute, and it was determined that he could hear. So we were able to rule out that he was deaf. So that, uh, leaned more towards, uh, an, a developmental disability or autism because he was just not, um, you know, recognizing his name. 
And then, um, he wouldn't really make eye contact. He would, um, he would really get overwhelmed, um, in, in stores, like loud places. He would scream. He, another, um, sign that we had was, he was really, the only thing that would calm him down would be his pacifier. So that oral, um, sensation of sucking on what we called his boo, his pet, uh, name for his pacifier. But when he got so overwhelmed that I couldn't console him, I couldn't hold him, I could put his pacifier in his mouth, and it seemed that oral sensation of sucking would be the only thing that could calm him down. And so those were really some signs that he was just not developing normally. 
And he, no speech, not even echolalia and at the time it just, it was just babbling. No mama, no, no, really nothing. And Matthew didn't really speak till the age of six. It was just, it was just, it was Matth-- We called it Matthew talk, but it was just more like babbling. And still to this day, Matthew doesn't have typical speech patterns. He will, he is a sponge for information, and he, he will talk about movies at Disney mergers, um, he will talk about anything to do with his special interests. He has special interest of Thomas the Tank Engine, Veggie Tales, um, let's see, uh, Chanticleer, anything that is Disney-related, he can verbatim tell you. So it's very interesting. But he cannot tie his shoe. He cannot, um, distinguish a $5 bill from a $1 bill, which makes him extremely vulnerable.

[Caitlynn]
And then I had another question that was put in the chat, and it was from Ms. Caitlyn and she said, "How do you practice autonomy for a child with disability, or especially for an adult with disability?"

[Melanie]
I'm sorry, can you repeat that for me?

[Caitlynn]
How do you practice autonomy for a child with a disability or especially for an adult with disability?

[Melanie]
How do I practice it?

[Caitlynn]
Mm-Hmm.

[Melanie]
I, I really, I mean that's, that's challenging, right? Um, because you want them to be their own person and you want them to do whatever, to be self-sufficient. But there's also a layer of wanting them, needing that layer of keeping them safe. For my son, he has a IQ of 60, full scale IQ of 62 and a, um, level three autism diagnosis. So I allow him as much autonomy as possible, but in the back of my mind, I have to keep him safe. So, and he has always said, I, from the beginning where I always say, "Where do you wanna live, Matthew? Do you wanna live somewhere else?" I always give him like four choices. He says, "I wanna live at home with you, Mom." And that is, if I ask him if he wanted to live somewhere else, I, that would be my goal. That would be our goal. And that I always say, I want what Matthew wants if it's safe. And I, I try to hold true to those words.

[Caitlynn]
Thank you for sharing that with us. Um, another question that has been added into the chat was, "Did anyone evaluate his sensory profile or was it most looking at behaviors?"

[Melanie]
No, he was, uh, occupational therapy was at the forefront of his treatment when he was young. He, um, did a lot of, um, occupational therapy, swinging, brushing. Um, they like brushing his back, brushing his arms because he was the, uh, Out-of-Sync Child. There is a book called "The Out-of-Sync Child" for anybody that is interested in reading. And that was one of the first books I ever read. And they actually have, I actually got a, a new book, "The Out-of-Sync Adult," and it's written kind of by the same person. But the Out-of-Sync Child was one of the very first books that was recommended to me. And it is so true because it talks about the kid that does not know where their body is at in space and that they're just all over the place. 
And a very wise psychologist in Norman, about 22 years ago, told me why Matthew was a runner. And I mean, like, when he got overwhelmed, he would just hit the door and I'd have to kick off my shoes and start running because I'd have to chase him down. And we had to come up with all kinds of locks on the door, high, low. And that was just the way he coped. He was just, when he would got, oh, so, um, unregulated, he just wanted to run. And she told me, she was like, "Melanie, one day he's not gonna run." And I just kind of looked at her like, are you serious? Why? I had my legs and arms wrapped around him trying to keep him from running out her office door. But she was right, like at the age of 20, he stopped running. I'm like, thank you Lord above, um, because you know, one day he ran out of a doctor's office in Norman and went to the door and there was a flight of stairs and he just flopped [cuts out] -- and it was not gonna be good. But the doctor told me, oh, kids like him, three, they just roll down the stairs like puppies. I'm like, "Oh my gosh." But he was fine. Nothing. They did his full scan and it was fine. So, um, it's, it's been a wild experience, but one that, I mean, I wouldn't change for the world.

[Caitlynn]
I had someone else add into the chat. Um, "Miss Sarah," she said, "I'd love more information on the intersection of trauma due to childhood neglect an ID or DD diagnosis. As an adoption professional, we see sensory starvation post-adoption, which can be easily diagnosed as autism. Does anyone have any resources on this intersection?"

[Melanie]
You know, I think that is very true. I can certainly look at that. I think, um, style, uh, Child Study Center might be a great place, um, to go for that. I would highly recommend if you have a child that, um, is adopted and is really struggling with extreme behaviors, go ahead and get them on the Child Study Center waiting list to be evaluated because they have like a multiple-pronged approach with several, um, doctors there. And it would be so worth the wait.

[Caitlynn]
And then I actually have my own personal question that I wanted to ask. Um, how do adoptive parents or foster parents find out if they're on the DDS wait list?

[Melanie]
They, I would recommend them calling. Um, there's, on the, on the DDS website, there is a number, um, they can call, um, and just ask, um, to the, the number, it's, there's a customer service number or, uh, a client number and just ask, say, "I would like to see if I am on the DDS wait list." Or maybe they're, if they, if they have a post-adoption worker, they may be able to contact the post-adoption worker and the post-adoption worker could contact DDS for them. And I could, uh, Sarah and I could get together, um, and, and talk about that some more. 

[Caitlynn]
Okay. Awesome. Thank you. Does anybody else have any questions or anything that they would like to ask or share? Oh, I've got one that just came into the chat and it says, "How did you find community outside of your family? I know some parents can feel so isolated and judged."

[Melanie]
Absolutely. That's a great question. Thank you for asking that. I, I still struggle with that actually, um, because I, too, isolate. Because it's difficult because I don't wanna be a burden to people. And, um, that's probably one of the most difficult things as a special, um, needs parent or having a child with a disability is that you don't wanna burden people. And that is one thing I still struggle with. I wish I had the, the correct answer, but I don't.

[Sarah]
Um, so I've got a couple, a couple of different ways to answer that question. Um, have you ever gone to any of the Wellspring events? They have, um, weekends that are designated for families that have kiddos with, um, developmental disabilities. Um, the, the families can go, uh, for a weekend and learn all, all kinds of things, they've got speakers and people that can help you get together with other people that have kids with developmental delay. Um, they pay for your, your hotel for the weekend. It's a really amazing thing. I think they might only have one or two events a year for, um, kids or for families with developmentally delayed children.
Um, and then another, another resource you could have is through your post adoptions worker. Um, right now we're doing, uh, some outreach programs. We're trying to do them once a month, um, to get adoptive families together. It's for all adoptive families, but we would love to, to have everybody come together and form a community of, of people that have adopted kids just like, just like everybody else and, and get together and support each other, um, to hopefully build that support system. So reach out, I'll put my information in the chat, reach out to your post-adoptions worker, um, and we can help you, help you find some supports.

[Melanie]
I will say that Sooner Success, um, has, is a great, um, they have a great program as well, um, to look on their, their website. They do a lot of different things too. I, I actually went to the, um, Wellsprings, um, weekend and that was an amazing weekend, um, with, for the developmentally dis, um, disabilities weekend for parents. And it was a great weekend. I loved it. So I would highly recommend that too.

[Caitlynn]
And then we've got another question in the chat from Miss Allie, um, saying, "Do you have any resources on how to explain to your autistic child while they have differences from other kids, and also how to explain to siblings?"

[Melanie]
You know, I bought some books, um, during covid and there there is some books I wish I would've, um, put them on there. I may be able to, I I will get the names of them and ask Sarah and her team to share those, um, because it's a great way to explain to, and it's kind of elementary terms, but to explain to others, uh, about autism and how their differences, um, are unique. And it was really well done. But I will, I will try to get that information to you because I loved it.

[Caitlynn]
Anybody else have any questions or anything else that they wanna share before we maybe close out this meeting? I've got one new question. Um, "I know this is more geared towards post-adoption, but pre-adoption I know OKSA puts on a conference for DDS kiddos and that might be a good way to start building the support system, support system, which is more of an answer for earlier."
Well, thank you so much Ms. Melanie, for sharing your story with us and giving all of this very, very helpful information. And thank you guys, everyone else for attending and learning with us.

::Slide - References::

Um, if you want your CEUs or anything like that, make sure that you send your email in underneath so that we can get all of that information to you. And yes, we will send out the recordings and the slides as well.

[Melanie]
Thank you so much.

[Caitlynn]
Thank you.

[Silence]
::Virtual CE Slide - We Want to Know Your Thoughts evaluation link - https://bit.ly/49owE5p ::